The Greatest American Band Debate: Iggy and the Stooges

For the greatest American band debate today, I'm going to nominate the one, and only, punk rock group that I have legitimately liked. The problem with punk rock music, at least in America, it becomes too watered down and begins to sound emo when a decent punk group gets some fame. There are too many to list, but I bet the readers know exactly what I'm talking about. In all fairness, the best punk groups come from the UK. There is no denying this, it is a statement of fact. But, Iggy and the Stooges made American punk music cool for their run as a band.

Iggy and the Stooges were the only punk group I heard and was immediately in to. I know some people will try to tell me that the Ramones were punk, they were not, they were rock and pop. The Stooges were punk. Even when they first formed and did some psychedelic stuff, it still sounded punk rockish, at least to me. And, it was mainly because of their phenomenal front man, Iggy Pop. I knew that I was going to be into Iggy and the Stooges before I listened to them, because they are from Ann Arbor, Michigan. Not only were they from the greatest state in the US, but they were from the greatest college town of all time. I was destined to like them.

I do have to say, the way I first heard of the Stooges was from a Black Keys EP where they covered their song, "No Fun". I loved the Black Keys version, so, combined with the fact that they were from Ann Arbor and my all time favorite band was covering their songs, I had to check them out. They did not disappoint. Their self titled debut record, while not commercially successful, is a very, very good album. they have some of the psychedelic stuff going on, but it is mostly straight up punk guitar and bass riffs, fast paced drums and Iggy Pop performing these songs with his signature gruff style. I think the record is very good. They may have come off as weird when they released it in the early 70's, but it still holds up today. I'd much rather listen to this album than anything the Ramones have ever released.

A couple of years later, they released their second record, "Fun House". After the release of "Fun House", that was when the Stooges got the critical acclaim. It was a straight forward punk record with classic song after classic song. During the tour after the release of "Fun House" was also when the band got into heroin and their live shows became a thing of legend. Heroin is so nasty, I assume, and it seems like every band from the 70's tried it at one time or another, but it wasn't the drugs that made them great. The live shows was were it was at, and yes, I'm sure heroin had something to do with what made these shows so epic. They used to tour with another great American band, that will surely get their due on the site soon, MC5, and the shows are still talked about today. This was when Iggy Pop would do crazy stuff like cut himself with broken glass, rub food stuffs and other things all over his shirtless body, the band was always playing incredible stuff and, during these live shows, that was when Iggy Pop supposedly created stage diving. I don't know if it is true or not, but the fact that a lot of people credit him with creating this, I mean, how cool is that. Stage diving has become commonplace now, but imagine being there when it first happened. You have to have a crowd that is really into your music, so much so that they are willing to hold you up when you dive into a sea of fans. I love that Iggy Pop is the supposed creator, because who else could it really be. Iggy Pop is so believable as the man that invented stage diving.

After many epic live shows and many problems with hard drugs, the band all got sober and released their third, and final record as the traditional Stooges, "Rough Power". They recorded this album with David Bowie, who had become good friends with Pop, as the producer. The album is hit or miss, with most of the criticism being thrown Bowie's way for over producing, but it is still an okay record. You can definitely hear Bowie's fingerprints all over this record.

The band broke up for the final time after "Rough Power". Pop has gone on to do wonderful things as a solo artist. He has worked with many great musicians and producers, guys like Brian Burton and Josh Homme, and has had a lot of success. Pop is the undeniable star of this great group, but I cannot end this blog without mentioning how great the Asheton Brothers, Ron and Scott were. They were both just as important to the Stooges sound and uprising as one of the greatest punk rock groups ever. They have since passed, as has everyone else that was first involved with the Stooges, but Iggy Pop is still plugging along.

I also cannot end until I name some of the great bands that the Stooges influenced. I already mentioned the Black Keys, but other bands like Sonic Youth, Rage Against the Machine, REM, The Red Hot Chili Peppers and the late great Kurt Cobain have all said that the Stooges were big influences, and they have all covered them, one way or another. The Stooges were finally, after 7 tries, inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in 2010. It was a longtime coming.

Look, I will be forever grateful to the Stooges for showing me that punk rock can be good. It doesn't have to be simplistic and the singer doesn't have to scream into a mic or be emo. You can be yourself and make great music, which the Stooges did. They are more than worthy to be called one of America's greatest bands.

Ty

Ty is the Pop Culture editor for SeedSing and the other host of the X Millennial Man Podcast. Who do you think the Greatest American Band is? Come tell us all about it. Also, follow Ty on twitter @tykulik.

The Greatest American Band Debate: The Ramones

For the greatest American band debate on Seed Sing, I'm going to nominate another band that I'm not really a fan of, but to be reputable, we have to acknowledge these bands that most of the music listening population recognizes as an all time great. The band I'm going to talk about today, I actually dislike almost as much as I dislike the Beach Boys. That band is The Ramones.

The Ramones are widely considered the founders of punk rock music, a genre of music I'm not that into, but I recognize how important and influential it is and has been. For my punk rock, I go to Iggy and the Stooges, who I will write about at another date, or more prog type punk rock like King Crimson or Mars Volta, I'll also be writing about Mars Volta at a later date. King Crimson is from England, so they don't make the cut in our debate. Those three bands, in my opinion, are way, way better than The Ramones, but they aren't recognized like The Ramones. The Ramones are credited with starting punk rock because every single one of their songs is a tight 2 minutes and they only play three chords and the lyrics are sung muffled. That, for all intents and purposes, is the definition of punk rock. When it comes to my personal definition, punk rock is anarchy and disestablishment and great, complicated guitar work, especially solos.

When it comes to front men, Iggy Pop is a much better punk rock singer than Joey Ramone. You can understand most of what Iggy Pop is saying and as far as on stage theatrics, there is no one that comes close to Iggy Pop, especially not Joey Ramone. But, Joey Ramone is widely looked at as the essential punk rock front man, much to my shock. He just kind of stood on stage and garbled his way through each song. People will call that punk rock, I say, he was hiding the fact that he was not that good of a singer and he had some form of stage fright.

Then, when you look at the musicians in King Crimson or Mars Volta, they are so much better and so much more proficient than Johnny, Dee Dee and Tommy Ramone. Robert Fripp, of King Crimson, is ten thousand times the guitar player that Johnny Ramone ever wished he could be. And oh my god, Omar Rodriguez-Lopez is one of the greatest, most innovative and weirdest guitar players I've ever listened to in my entire life. I think he's an alien that was put on Earth to show us humans what a real guitar god looks and plays like. He is the Millenial's Jimmy Page. He's a guitar wizard that people will call legendary in about 20 years. I guarantee I will be telling my son about him when he's in his twenties and asks me about music from my generation. He's the man. Do people really say the same thing about Johnny Ramone? Is he a legendary, all time great guitar player? I don't think so. He doesn't have any memorable solos and he basically plays three chords on every song. Anyone that takes one guitar lesson can pretty much learn the entire Ramones song book. It is literally that easy. Just learn a G chord, a C chord and an F chord and you are good to go.

Let's get back to why some believe they are so influential. I will bend and say that without The Ramones, we would have never gotten The Sex Pistols, another band I'm not so fond of, but people love, Jello Biafra, who is a genius musician, there'd be no Black Flag, who is a much better band and Bad Brains, who are a great, great punk rock/reggae band. They did influence these bands and musicians and countless others, but the people I just mentioned took that influence, ran with it and made much, much better music than The Ramones. I know that people love the "simplicity" of their songs. Critics love the fact that they got their message out in 2 minutes or less. In my opinion, they could only handle that small amount of music because they were not that skilled. They needed to get everything done in a short amount of time because, if their songs lasted longer, they would be seen as subpar musicians and songwriters. They wouldn't be as highly regarded as they are now. Big time magazines and publications like "Billboard" or "Rolling Stone" even went as far to name them the second greatest rock group of all time, behind only The Beatles. That's down right insane. No way are they better than The Rolling Stones, Bob Marley and the Wailers, The Kinks, Public Enemy, The Beastie Boys, The Paul Butterfield Blues Band, Janis Joplin and the Holding Company, the Flying Burrito Brothers, I could literally go on and on with bands that are far superior to The Ramones.

I also acknowledge that the Ramones had a big stake and were very influential in making the cult classic movie "Rock and Roll High School" that many people adore. Have any of these people that claim to love that movie seen it lately? It does not hold up well. The movie is a lot like The Ramones music. It's kind of a muffled, garbled look at a Detroit high school in the 70's. It's boring and pointless too. I don't get the love for that movie. It's very overrated.

Look, I understand that a lot of people think The Ramones are one of the greatest American bands, I'm not one of those people. But, I also realize that we at SeedSing have to recognize and write about things we don't like or disagree with if we want to be taken seriously. So, I made the best case that a non fan of The Ramones can make. I believe that there are thousands of bands and musicians that are much, much better than The Ramones, but not everyone sees it that way. Much to my chagrin, these are the "reasons" that The Ramones belong in our greatest American band debate. Please tell me why I'm wrong in the comment section, but also check out some of the people I mentioned above and go listen to the people that The Ramones influenced instead of listening to The Ramones.

That's the best advice I can give you.

Ty

Ty is the Pop Culture Editor for SeedSing and the other host of the X Millennial Man podcast. He once adored the Ramones, then learned their entire catalog in one afternoon and moved on. Follow Ty on twitter @tykulik.